Facebook Marketing: Why It Is Time to Rethink Everything

Do you use Facebook to market your business? Wondering how marketing on Facebook is evolving? To explore how marketers should adjust to Facebook’s recent and future changes, I interview Mari Smith. More About This Show The Social Media Marketing podcast is an on-demand talk radio show from Social Media Examiner. It’s designed to help busy […]

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– Your Guide to the Social Media Jungle

Episode 94: The Future of Messenger Marketing with ManyChat CEO Mikael Yang

Learn from the experts and ManyChat CEO, Mikael Yang, what’s in store for Messenger bots and the Messenger marketing strategies you can deploy in your business today, so you can stay human and bring personal value to your customer. Be sure to listen to the last three minutes to get the “most important tip” to succeed with Messenger marketing.


  • The “ultimate experience” marketers can tap into to better reach their customers.
  • The first step of Messenger Marketing that will get you started, so you don’t miss out on this communication channel.
  • The tactic that will make Messenger bots feel human and improve the conversation with your subscriber.
  • Learn why Mikael believes Messenger as a platform is going to capture 80% of the business-to-customer communication in the near future.


Facebook Messenger Marketing Blueprint
Episode 72: How DigitalMarketer Generated 500% ROI in 3 Days Using Facebook Messenger
Episode 80: Facebook Messenger Ads: Everything You Need to Know
Episode 93: 6 Website Tweaks You Can Use to Skyrocket Your Sales

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave us a review on iTunes!

(NOTE: Ready to use Facebook’s newest “ad” platform to turn one-to-one conversation into sales—even if you don’t have the staff to reply manually? Check out the Facebook Messenger Marketing Blueprint and discover how Facebook Messenger Ads are changing the way businesses communicate with customers. Learn more now.)

The post Episode 94: The Future of Messenger Marketing with ManyChat CEO Mikael Yang appeared first on DigitalMarketer.

How to Use the Facebook Split Testing Feature for Ads

Do you want to improve your Facebook ad performance? Looking to simplify your Facebook ad split testing? Facebook’s new split testing feature helps you identify which delivery settings, audiences, and ad placements give you the best results. In this article, you’ll discover how to set up split tests to improve the performance of your Facebook […]

This post How to Use the Facebook Split Testing Feature for Ads first appeared on .
– Your Guide to the Social Media Jungle

Facebook Debuts Augmented Reality Camera: This Week in Social Media

Welcome to our weekly edition of what’s hot in social media news. To help you stay up to date with social media, here are some of the news items that caught our attention. What’s New This Week Facebook Releases Augmented Reality Camera Effects Platform: Facebook officially released the Camera Effects Platform at its annual F8 […]

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– Your Guide to the Social Media Jungle

Episode 92: The 3-Step Strategy to Grow and Scale a Multi-Million Dollar Marketing Agency

Learn the three-step strategy that has led to Dominate Web Media’s 300% year-over-year growth while they manage two-to-three-million-dollars’ worth of monthly ad spend for their clients. Listen as the experts describe how this strategy is applicable across the board—whether you’re a business owner, work for a business, or manage a team—and how you can start implementing these tactics today.


  • The solution to building a company (« Hint: It’s not finding people who are just like you).
  • The “unconventional” four-step formula to finding and attracting talented, better hires who will perform and help grow a business (« and why the interview is “optional” and not one of the four steps at Dominate Web Media).
  • What airplane pilots can teach you about growing a business and how it will give you control, consistency, precision, and duplicability.
  • Keith’s three “growth hacks” to growing an agency at massive scale.

Episode 92 Transcript (swipe the PDF version here):

Keith Krance: Hello and welcome to Perpetual Traffic, episode number 92. Today’s episode is going to be pretty much all Ralph and Molly. I was actually not in the virtual room recording when we did this episode. I’m going to add a few very important tips here at the beginning, and then I’m going to let them take it from here. This episode, I was actually gone at Southern Oregon on a trip with my best friend’s 40th birthday. Eight of us went down to Southern Oregon to the Bandon Dunes golf resort, so this is going to be all Ralph and Molly talking all about how to grow and scale a seven-figure marketing agency. I’m going to give you a couple tips here and give you a few Steve Jobs quotes as we kick it off and as we end it as well because that’s one of my idols and everything we have done from the very beginning.
We always try to look at what these great ones do and one of his quotes is, “My model for business is the Beatles. They were four guys who kept each other’s kind of negative tendencies in check. They balanced each other, and the total was greater than the sum of the parts.” That’s how I see business. Great things in business are never done by one person. They’re done by a team of people. 2013 is when Ralph and I met at one of my workshops and that’s when things really started taking off. It’s already been almost exactly a year since Ralph and I agreed to completely hand over the reins of the agency side of the business to Ralph, so he can continue taking things to the next level and beyond, which he has done more than I ever could’ve expected or imagined, and it’s been an amazing ride because we have so much synergy together, which is why I led this episode off with that Steve Jobs quote about the Beatles.
‘Course, we both have a stake in both sides of the business. Myself, I’m the agency, and himself in my side of the business which is the education, coaching, consulting, certifications, account manager, placement program and referral program, and the reason I led this episode off with that quote from Steve Jobs about the Beatles is because you can have all the ideas you want but if you don’t have somebody, or if you’re not that person that can execute and implement, then you’re lost, and if you don’t have the ability to innovate and continue staying on the cutting edge. As Steve Jobs, one of his quotes says, “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” Now I’m going to let Ralph and Molly take it here, but hang on to the end of this episode because I’m going to give you my three keys that are the foundation. If you don’t have these three keys, you’ll never be able to grow, truly grow an agency at massive scale.
And my number one key is really the number one growth hack, and once you understand this, this is how you have constant demand while constantly raising your prices, and I’ll explain how we have done this. So enjoy the episode, and I’ll talk in a few.
Molly Pittman: Hey guys, I’m really excited about today’s episode. We’re going to take a different route than we usually do. Usually, you hear a lot about ads and running traffic on my, on this podcast, and we wanted to take a step back today. We actually wanted to talk a little bit about how Ralph Burns, which you guys all know and love, Ralph, one of the co-hosts of Perpetual Traffic
Ralph Burns: Maybe just know.
Molly Pittman: Definitely love, exactly how Ralph builds a multimillion-dollar virtual marketing agency. So if you’ve listened to some of the previous episodes here along the way, we’ve talked a lot about what each of us do. So, myself, Molly, I’m the VP of marketing at DigitalMarketer. Keith and Ralph have Dominate Web Media, so Keith is more focused on creating courses and coaching and speaking and teaching Facebook ads to others, while Ralph actually takes on clients, some pretty huge clients with really big spend. And over the past few years, he’s been able to build a multimillion dollar ad agency from his house. So today, he’s going to explain exactly how he did it. I think this is going to be a good one. Hello, Ralph.
Ralph Burns: Hello, Molly. Thanks for the wicked awesome intro.
Molly Pittman: Of course. I’m excited about today’s episode.
Ralph Burns: This is definitely something that I didn’t realize could be a podcast episode, quite honestly, because most of the time we’re talking about how to do Facebook ads, but apparently a fair amount of our listeners are people that are doing what I’m doing, or maybe want to do what I’m doing in one capacity or another, or maybe a little bit smaller, maybe a little bit larger and just looking for different ways to scale up.
Molly Pittman: It’s interesting. I know a lot of our listeners out there, are freelancers, agency owners, they are people that do this for others. For you guys, this is obviously going to be incredibly helpful, but even if you don’t have an agency, whatever your business is, Ralph is going to share stuff about hiring and working virtually and some really good info that, honestly, I was looking through the slides. It’s great info for me to take and even apply over at DigitalMarketer. So really, whatever position you’re in, even if you don’t own an agency, I think this is going to be incredibly helpful for you.
But to get started, Ralph, I think your story’s pretty interesting. Can you tell everyone how you got in to this stuff?
Ralph Burns: Well, I mean the agency started by pivoting a lot in this space. This is definitely something that a lot of people do in their careers to eventually get to the point where they’re running a successful business, is if the first business that you run might not be the business that you run that actually makes you money and, you know, employs people and does all the things that we do inside the agency here. But you know, my background is primarily in the corporate world, in sales and sales management. So, you know, while I was actually in the corporate world, I started my very first blog, my very first sort of website and I figured my employer wouldn’t be too ticked off if I did that about something that I was actually doing all day long, which was managing sales people, you know, or directing salespeople from a director’s standpoint. So, I created this very feeble and not very good website way back when, all about sales management and how to teach sales managers to do this stuff that I kind of learned how to do.
So eventually they found out about that and really didn’t like that all that much and they thought I was moonlighting and not really paying attention to my day job, which all I was really doing was just laying the foundation for doing something on my own, which is, I’ve always wanted to run my own business, so, but I found that I didn’t really like doing that particular subject matter as content. Like, I didn’t enjoy talking about it, but what I really enjoyed was the process of marketing it.
Molly Pittman: Right.
Ralph Burns: And that then led me into the affiliate world where I was a super-affiliate for a number of different types of offers which shall remain nameless at this point in time, but-
Molly Pittman: But it’s where you learned, right? It’s where you learned how to do this.
Ralph Burns: It’s where I learned. Yeah, I meant, I was spending, you know, over six figures a month of my own money on affiliate offers, so you had to good at it. I mean, I was eating what I killed.
Molly Pittman: There was a lot of risk.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. So that’s really where I learned how to do ad copy, how to place ads, how to, you know, buy banner ads, how to buy banner space on websites, how to use pay-per-click, Google AdWords, Bing, MSN, I guess which it was back then as well as Yahoo.
Molly Pittman: Mmmm, MSN. Sweet.
Ralph Burns: And after multiple account bans for all of those, I finally found Facebook and Facebook was just starting out at that point, and Facebook really just only had where you lived, what your marital status was, if you were interested in men or women or both and your age and where you lived, and that was pretty much it. So that type of targeting has since become very much more advanced as we all know. If you’re listening to this podcast, all of you realize that the interest targeting inside Facebook is really, is one of the killer apps.
I ran lots of ads for Christian Mingle which was a dating service which was actually ideal for Facebook. So you’re a female, 25-35 and lived in Dallas, Texas about seven years ago, I sincerely apologize for clogging up your Facebook news feed back then. Actually, they were right-hand column ads, there was no such thing as Facebook News Feed ads. So, we pivoted a bunch of times, and then started doing ads, started running advertising for customers, and then Keith and I connected and things sort of took off from there.
So I think this story here is, really is, you know, how a guy with a, you know, a guy in his basement with a VA, which is how I really started out turned into what’s now a multimillion dollar virtual marketing agency, and all of our, you know, workers, everyone who does work for our agency, customers, is virtual. So we’ve got, you know, over 20 people on staff and definitely in an upward trajectory.
Molly Pittman: Yeah, and you guys are spending a bit of money.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, I mean, we’re spending anywhere between, you know, two and three million dollars a month. It’s probably more in the coming months, but if you’re spending two or three million dollars of customers’ money, you probably are getting a return for it, and that’s one of the things that we do really well, is we scale and get higher return on ad spend or ROI for our customers, and that’s led to a lot of learnings and a lot of things that we talk about here on the podcast, so we test them with the customer accounts, handling their money like it’s our own, and then we teach it inside Dominate Web Media, and then obviously we talk about it here on the podcast, so it’s a good mix between the three of us, I think.
Molly Pittman: Awesome, Ralph. I know you have a three-step strategy to share today, but I’m excited again whether you own your own business, you own your own agency, this is absolutely applicable to you.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, and for anybody who’s running a virtual business out there, I designed this basically because my wife loves to travel, and I created this business so that we can actually do that. We haven’t done a whole lot of it in the last two years because of kids and, you know, a lot of obligations from the agency, but the point is that it is possible to build a culture and a virtual company and grow it and grow it to, you know, seven figures, which is what we’ve done and we’ve experienced, you know, ’bout 300% growth every single year, this year included and, you know, it’s because of the three steps that I’ll talk about here in this episode.
Molly Pittman: Step one.
Ralph Burns: All right. So step number one, this is a really important step, and we’ve been very fortunate to be able to do this because of a lot of the stuff that Keith has done at Dominate Web Media, Facebook Ads University which is our paid membership site, just a lot of the stuff that he’s done over there had led to us being able to achieve step one. So I by no means did this all by myself. Keith was there at every step of the process. I was the guy who implemented it, but a lot of the strategies and everything that we teach inside our paid courses, you know, comes from Keith’s ideas, which we then implement in the agency, and we just do it at massive scale, but one of the things that we’re very fortunate, is that there’s lots of people who we teach already how to do this stuff, you know, whether it’s on the podcast, or whether it’s on our own sort of membership site. So step number one is getting A-players.
So that has allowed us, because we’re already teaching people how to do this stuff, it’s allowed us to attract the very high quality personnel that we can then use to run advertising inside the agency itself, and I think one of the things when I was building this agency and also when I was building sales teams back in the corporate world, is that initially, when you’re hiring people, you want to find people that are just like yourself, right? because, all right, I know how to run Facebook ads, I’m fairly creative, fairly analytical, can kind of run things and do it at scale, pretty good with customers, you know, why can’t I find people exactly like me to then just do what I was doing and replace myself? But what I found is that really isn’t the solution. The solution to building a company is, especially a fast-growing people in a niche where it’s in demand certainly helps.
People want Facebook ads run for them, as a company, is to find people that are people that are better than me. So one of my big goals was to set my ego aside and say, “All right, I know how to do this stuff pretty well, but I want to find people that are complementary to my skill set.” Maybe even more analytical, more creative, you know, see things from a different perspective, and I think, you know, if you set your ego aside when you’re doing your hiring, especially if you’re first starting out, don’t try to find little clones of yourself. I mean, if you can, yeah, that’s okay, I mean, but you ultimately really want to attract people that are better than you and see things differently because collaboration inside the agency is really is the biggest reason why I think we’ve experienced such a great amount of success and will continue to do so.
So when I first started, like I said, I mean, I was the agency CEO and, you know, then I just had one virtual assistant who is still with me to this day. You know, she’s been with me actually since the days when I was in the corporate world. Right before I got fired. Thank you, by the way, for firing me. Thank god. I celebrate that day every year, by the way, Molly. January 29th. Every year, Independence Day. So that’s how we started, but then what I realize is in order to run ads, what I really need is people to run ads. So we started to attract what we refer to as account managers. I don’t call them ads managers because what they do is they manage the account.
They don’t just manage the ads, they manage the client relationship, they manage the day-to-day operations of the ads as well, as we continue to grow, we’ve added more and more of these account managers, all who work virtually, you know, all who are paid by the ad account that they manage, all independently, and some of them do work together on some larger ad accounts that just have tremendous amount of volume or high degree of complexity. But in most cases, an account manager is assigned to an ad account, and that’s how our structure kind of works. So we evolve from guy at a VA to, you know, multiple account managers with all kinds of support staff.
So we didn’t do this overnight, but we did it sort of overtime, so we added designers, we added copywriters, we added people who optimize ads, we’ve now added, you know, high-level programmers. We’ve got virtual assistants now that do, you know, a number of different tasks. As well as, we’ve got a data scientist who really gets deep into some of the analytics. So what we try to do is create a team of people who have highly specialized skills but in aggregate, they’re better than they would be alone because we found that collaboration is the key to success. What we did see is that there’s certain character traits that I think are really, really important for not only just account managers, but for everybody in the agency, and this is something that I sort of took from the corporate when I used to hire sales people, is that you want people that are hungry and humble, H and H is what we call it.
Hungry and humble, meaning they’re never going to think they’re too big for their britches, so to speak, as dad used to say, but they’re always improving themselves, like they have this never-ending improvement mentality. Also, highly analytical certainly helps when you’re analyzing heaps of data from Facebook. Also creative, to a certain degree. Some people have that more than others, same thing with analytical, and the biggest, biggest thing for me is solution-oriented. I could hire a hundred people that will tell me what’s wrong, but what I tell our guys all the time is “That’s great, you’re telling me what’s wrong, what are you going to do about it, what’s your solution? Even if it’s not the right solution, let’s work through it.” So that’s how we’ve been able to scale, so I try not to give everybody answers to the questions they’re asking, but have them present to me, so collaboratively we can think of a better solution. So solution-oriented is hugely important, especially if you’re running a virtual company because you want people to be able to solve problems on their own, you know, obviously with your guidance.
Molly Pittman: Yeah, and I think that’s important, especially here at DigitalMarketer. We’re always looking to train and help people grow internally. And the best way to do that is to give them an output that you’re looking for, that they’re looking for, right? Give them some hints for how to get there, give them the resources they need to get there, but don’t always tell them exactly how to get there. Back to what Ralph said about being able to solve problems, that’s huge in any job that you do. So if you’re constantly giving your employees and team members answers to every problem, they’re never going to figure out how to solve those problems on their own, but I think that’s something that Ryan and the leadership here at DigitalMarketer, that’s how I’ve learned, right, is because they didn’t always give me the answers, they gave me the resources I needed to figure out the answers and I learned because I had to figure out the answers on my own. So just to really hammer in how important that is.
So how do you find these people, Ralph?
Ralph Burns: So the first thing we do is, you know, inside Facebook Ads University, we actually do postings there, but that’s not the only place that we do it, but we do a posting, you know, that says we’re actually looking for an account manager. We have a job posting that’s really, really specific to what it is that they get out of it. We always sort of try to remember that what’s in it for me is actually is the most important thing with most people, so the posting we do on a number of different job boards, but Facebook Ads University, our own platform, really does help as well as in our own Facebook company. So if you’ve got a Facebook group in your company, that’s a great place to start for sure. The second thing we do is, what we call the audition, which I’ll get into in just a second, and the third thing is the internship and the fourth is the payoff. So I’ll go through all these four steps, because it’s sort of a methodical, it’s a long process.
If you noticed out of those four steps, the interview is not in there. Interview is actually optional for us because I’m a huge believer in the “show me, don’t tell me” principle. So, because I’ve interviewed hundreds, probably thousands of people for just sales jobs or for sales manager jobs, when I was in the corporate world, one of the things that I always sort of came back to is if they could actually show me how good they are, instead of just reading it off a resume, then I end up with a whole lot better hires. So not that people stretch the truth on what they say in a job interview, I’m not saying that, but you know, what I really want to see is how are you going to perform, and so that’s why the audition for me is, actually is far more important, but in most cases, I do end up talking to people live and kind of getting them through the process, but that’s sort of scattered within this sort of four-step formula.
Might happen initially, it might happen later, and our track record has been pretty good with this, with retention and we’re really having good folks come on board, so it’s a formula that does work. It’s a little bit unconventional, so imagine interviewing for a job but not having an interview. Like your real big part of getting hired is to show the person, show the employer that you can actually do the job. So what we do in the posting itself, is like I said before, is really appeal to their desires more than anything else. And then in that posting, in this step number one, of the first step of the three-step process is you try to weed people out immediately by throwing in sort of a curve-ball question, which I always did in the corporate world and I think when I was at T&C two years ago when Karen Kang spoke, she actually talked about this very strategy. So I redeployed it back into our job posting, which has really been helpful, which is to name their favorite food, like in their response back to us, which sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t.
Also, there’s an attention to detail part to this because a highly attention-to-detail job is, you know, running at for customers, so in that posting, we actually have a couple of different typos in the posting itself and they’re supposed to figure out what the typo is and call it out and it’s not very obvious in most cases, so that’s kind of a hard one. And then lastly, we have them do a seven-minute video. Not 10 minutes, not five minutes, could be less than seven minutes, I suppose, but we’ve disqualified people because they did a thirty-minute video, they didn’t follow the directions. So, it’s got to be a seven-minute video on what they are currently doing with Facebook ads, what’s their level of expertise, and I think within the first minute or so, I can pretty much get a sense as to what their, you know, what their level is, what their capacity is and what their sort of skill level is and how much training they might need.
So then the next thing which I just referred to is the audition. So the audition is them actually doing something specific that is also highly relevant and perhaps you can even charge for, which is always nice. So, if it’s a webmaster, you know, that we’re looking for, maybe a programmer, it’s going to a customer’s funnel and do, you know, do the tagging for the first part of this funnel and then show me exactly what you did. If it’s a creative designer, I will give them a task from a customer that, “Hey, we’re working on these creative designs, this is the background, this is the hook, this is what they do. Do some designs for me.” That’s a good audition. The audition that we tend to do a lot for our account managers is, “I’m going to give you access as an analyst to a customer account,” and they of course sign an NDA so everything stays above board, and you know, all the proprietary trade secrets stay secret and they go in, they actually do what’s called an Ad Account Audit and Game Plan.
What have they done in the last 30 days for Facebook ads, what should they do in 30-60-90 days based upon what you know about how to run Facebook ads, and then we actually, we will use this as the screening process for our customers as well. So we get a dual source of this, so we can then combine this with the other account managers and account audits and they actually use it as a screening tool for new customers, which we do charge for because it’s highly valuable, even if they don’t come all onboard for us. Something they can use as a roadmap to be successful in the future, so we have these guys do that, so that’s sort of the next step in the audit.
And then I always ask them, I say, “Hey, you know, want to do an ad account audit, but can you do it by …” and I will give them a specific day and time, and the reason for that is that, as soon as they say “yes,” I know that they’ve committed themselves to actually doing this thing, and this is also sort of a test question because this tells me, is this person somebody who I can rely on for doing certain projects at a certain day and time, because everything in the agency runs by tasks, and tasks are associated with time. And then the audition itself is actually, is fairly long sometimes, the length and depth of that Ad Account Audit tells me how detail-oriented they are. Shows me sort of their thought process.
Shows me how they can analyze and think retrospectively as well as prospectively, what they would do in the future. Gives me ideas about their creativity, so it’s really, it’s a good tool and I highly encourage you to think about, you know, what can you do in your company or what task can you assign a potential hire that you can use for an audition. And I know you guys do this inside DM as well, don’t you?
Molly Pittman: Yeah, absolutely, this too. So, for example, when we’re hiring a copywriter, we’ll pay them $500 to write a sales letter for one of our products, just to make sure they can actually do the work because, like Ralph said, you can look at resumes all day, and honestly, I really hate resumes. I love to meet the person, but I want to make sure that they align with the values with our company. I want to make sure that they have the grit to do the work that needs to be done here at DM, but I also want to make sure that they can do that particular job function. So for example, with a copywriter, we’ll have them write a sales letter or emails to make sure that they end work that they’re going to produce is actually what we want for the business.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, totally.
Molly Pittman: And yeah, paying them makes it feel less icky, right, if they don’t get hired. And it’s a great process.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, I mean, whether you pay or whether you don’t pay, is really sort of a judgment call. I mean, at this point, we don’t, but we could, but what ends up happening is when we hire this account manager, we end up having them do lots of unpaid work, which is fine because, you know, I think you do have to invest a fair amount of time for most of the folks that run ads for us. They might be a consultant on their own.
Molly Pittman: Totally.
Ralph Burns: So they might be like I was when I first started. So, they started to have other ways in which to make money, but this is going to be a side thing that’s going to show us how competent they are, how good they are, and then it comes back to them tenfold when they do a really good job, because we’re really generous when we do bring them on board.
Molly Pittman: Yeah, absolutely.
Ralph Burns: And then we do what’s called the internship, so once they pass the audition, we do what’s called the internship, and the internship is sort of the last phase before we actually get them to run ad accounts or run actually paid traffic for customers, when we start, you know, paying them, and the internship is pretty in depth. There’s a lot of training that goes on, we’ve got, I think, five different programs right now inside Facebook Ads University that we have them go through. Most cases, they’ve already done that. We also do have them go through a course called Agency Domination. We also do our internal Dominate Web Media agency training, which is 11 modules, pretty intense with videos, and then we give them all our agency SOP training, which is actually 15 modules, and then we have them do the DigitalMarketer HQ programs. Thank you, DigitalMarketer.
And then a couple of other select, Ryan Deiss and Frank Kern and Ezra Firestone stuff sort of on top of it because, you know, we don’t have all the ideas. Remember, going back to humble and hungry, we’re constantly learning ourselves.
Molly Pittman: Absolutely.
Ralph Burns: So, we want to make sure that those people actually have the same mindset, so one of the things that we have them do is go through Funnel Blueprint, which, I think, is huge for us as an agency. It’s one of DigitalMarketer’s best products. So, then lastly is the internship like I said, but there’s a part to the internship that we call shadowing. So we’ll actually bring them into our project management system, and they’ll start shadowing and being in on emails and client conversations for active live accounts. They’re not running at accounts yet, but they’re observing what the account managers are doing on a day-to-day basis, they’re seeing how the flow of information goes back and forth between us and the customer, and then, you know, if they have a high specialty in a specific area, we might actually have them start giving input and advice in some cases, and when that happens, pretty much they’re fast-tracked because we know they’ve got a high level of proficiency.
Molly Pittman: Right.
Ralph Burns: So, then once that’s all done, that could be like one to two months, and then we actually have them start running paid advertising.
The big thing with us, is like, we want to expand and grow, but not sacrifice quality one bit. Quality is the most important thing. We’ve actually resisted growing as an agency because I didn’t feel we were ready from a quality standpoint. So we’re at the point now where I don’t think that’s an issue, but we want to really make sure that people go through a really hard training, like they really do put in the time.
Molly Pittman: It’s a balance, right? So how can we hire people and train them quickly enough to grow so that we aren’t stunting growth but how can we also maintain the quality of the, the work and the efficiencies and the way that the company runs?
Ralph Burns: Yeah.
Molly Pittman: I think that’s one of the biggest hurdles that we all have to overcome. You know, how can you hire fast enough but also train them and make sure that it’s done thoroughly so that you’re not just growing for the sake of growing and inevitably decreasing the quality of the output.
Ralph Burns: Everybody in the agency feels that way. We get that sense from people. Even though they’re getting paid to do this, the big thing is that they all want and this is part of the screening process, and so I’ve matched them against what we refer to as the Agency Manifesto, which really is, I mean we’re doing this to grow businesses faster, and the most gratifying part of the job isn’t the money that you make necessarily, it’s the fact that you’ve done something in an awesome way.
Molly Pittman: Absolutely.
Ralph Burns: And you just absolutely kicked butt, and you know, the customer appreciates that, and I think everyone in the agency feels that way, and that’s sort of a company culture sort of thing. Even though it’s a virtual agency, it’s an undercurrent that runs through the entire organization.
Molly Pittman: Yup. Absolutely.
So what is step two, Ralph?
Ralph Burns: Step two is, well, we realized that we had to start growing and we couldn’t do it all on email. And we couldn’t do it just based upon what I thought. So in essence, what we did is, step two, is create systems. So, a very well-known digital marketer once told me two years ago, he’s like, “You’ve got a completely unscalable business because it’s too highly specialized,” and I said, “It’s the absolute reason why I’m going to grow it.” Not because I just wanted to prove him wrong, but because there weren’t any systems in place for this kind of stuff, so we had to create them all on our own. You know, myself and a guy on staff, Vladdy, who’s been instrumental in helping create these systems, a guy who’s been with us now for four or five years. So we created systems.
So if there are no systems, you got to create them, and the problem is that getting that stuff from your head into a system that people can then use on a day-to-day basis is incredibly time-intensive and it did take us a while to do it, but what I think brought us back is that we wanted to sort of think like the airline industry, and I think this was something that was really influential from Keith, is that as a former airline pilot, he’s like, “Dude, what you need to do is you need to create checklists of stuff, just put all the stuff that you know into a checklist.” And when I did that, it was sort of the rough outline of what would become all our standard operating procedures and our manuals, our operations manuals. So I started, I got something down on every sort of aspect of what we do, and then I filled in the details after that.
And we now still use both, we use a checklist, kind of like an airline pilot, but we also use our operations manuals that guide us when we have questions or when we run into problems, or we make sure that everything is very standardized. So if you haven’t created systems or checklists for your business, the best time to do it is now, unfortunately. Because it’s never going to get done on its own, you’re never going to be able scale without it. So, one of the books that I read, and I think I actually found it from Keith, Keith had recommended it to me, which is a book by Atul Gawande called The Checklist Manifesto, and it outlines how the medical industry actually was able to be checklisted, so having a background in medical sales and the medical industry, I knew that surgery which I used to sit in on an as an anesthesiology salesperson was incredibly complicated. Incredibly complicated with lots of variables, and I said “If they can checklist surgery, why can’t I checklist a Facebook Ads Agency?” This book actually gave me a lot of confidence to be able to do it.
So checklists, the best thing about them is that it gives you an incredible amount of control, consistency, precision as well as duplicability, which I didn’t know was a word before I did this presentation. But apparently-
Molly Pittman: Duplicability.
Ralph Burns: It’s being able to duplicate stuff.
Molly Pittman: Mmmm, now we know.
Ralph Burns: Now we know, there you go, there’s your 50-cent word of the day. But the problem is most people know they need this. They know they need an operations manual, they know they need a checklist, but where the hell do you start? And like I said, just start putting it down. Putting down a piece of paper like as a checklist, “All right, do this, this, this, this, this,” and then you’ll fill in all the details after, okay, but just getting it down on paper or in an Evernote file is like your best first step, because at least you feel like, “I actually accomplished something,” and then you fill it in SO write everything down you know, then revise it and edit it and fill in all the details and then just repeat that process until it’s perfect.
And I mean, we’ve got, I think 15 different SOPs now that basically cover every aspect of Facebook ads that we can possibly think of and we’re actually adding more because of cool stuff that we’ve learned in just the last three months, so just start with it. So if you’re having trouble getting these ideas down on paper, couple of tips for you.
First off, big tip number one is get your top people to write them for you. So I add one of our top people who’s been with me for a while now. Actually, helped me write these together, so he feels a part of it, he feels, you know, he’s got a sense of ownership with it, which isn’t the reason why I had him do it because he just knows all the systems, so we did it together. So get your top people to help you write them as part of their job role. You might need to pay them a little extra if you want, but it really should be a part of their job role.
Tip number two is definitely use a sharing document. So we started doing this on PDFs and then we’d publish them and then we’d have to go back in because Facebook would change the interface or you know, the image on the ads manager all of a sudden looks completely different. So make it on a document that’s a sharing doc. We use Google Drive Docs for this and it’s worked out really, really well for us because we can revise it in real time, which is the last one, is also assign somebody on your staff to update it. And in our case, we update it almost daily. I actually have the same guy go back in and review all the checklists like every week to make sure that the images are correct, that they’re up to date with what we’re currently doing. So what we’re currently doing isn’t different than what we tell people to do, so we’re constantly updating it.
It’s not a perfect system by any stretch, but it’s a pretty damn near perfect because we’ve got everything that we ever know or have ever done on Facebook Ads in a document so that we can hand this into a new trainee and say, “Read this, watch these videos and you’ll be able to run ads just like we do inside the agency.”
Molly Pittman: Bam!
Ralph Burns: Step number three, anything to add, Moll?
Molly Pittman: Step number three. No, I mean, one of the core values at DigitalMarketer is document and share your knowledge.
Ralph Burns: Yeah.
Molly Pittman: And not only from the standpoint, of course, that’s our business, right, to create content, to document what we do and to share with our customers so that you guys can them implement that knowledge and those checklists in your business, but there are a lot of things that are documented internally that we don’t share, right?
Ralph Burns: Yeah. Yup.
Molly Pittman: And it’s a part of every person’s job not just to be good at your job, but to document what you’re doing so that others can learn from it and so that someone can seriously sit down and pretty much do your job if they needed to. And it’s been very helpful for onboarding, it’s been very helpful for cross-training. If different members of your team know how to do one another’s job, it’s not only good from the sense of, “Oh, we can cover one another’s back,” you know, if you’re on vacation, there’s also a level of respect there. If you actually know what someone else is doing and how difficult that is and how much time it takes, you immediately respect them more, right, and you’re more than willing to give them the benefit of a doubt, you have a better understanding of how your job function and what you do fits into what they do. So documenting knowledge and then sharing it with other people on the team, that’s a huge part of our culture here at DM.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, that’s awesome. And I think when you create that culture with everybody helping, that’s what we really try to foster inside the agency because it’s not because it’s, like, contrived, it’s like it’s the right thing to do. Like, wouldn’t you want to help somebody else?
Molly Pittman: Exactly. Yeah.
Ralph Burns: Just because you know something, why keep it to yourself?
Molly Pittman: Yeah, I mean, we have a hashtag that we use, you know, in our internal communication, and it’s #oneteam and, you know, we all have different teams and work more closely with certain people, but we are all one team with the mission of doubling the size of 10,000 businesses, and if we forget that and get too siloed or quit communicating with people outside of certain departments, that’s not good for the company, so we’re always trying to foster that idea of “We are one team with one mission.”
Ralph Burns: Yeah, yeah, that’s great. You guys have been able to really do that so well. I think a lot of, like, your company culture stuff, we’ve certainly adopted. Especially since we talk all the time.
Molly Pittman: Yeah, absolutely.
Ralph Burns: So always be looking at other model organizations to sort of adopt that mentality or maybe that way in which they manage their teams or do specific things, and I think your organization is going to grow and just make it be that much better in the process.
So step number three, and lastly in our three-step formula to building a multimillion dollar virtual marketing agency is simple project management software. So might seem obvious, but a lot of people, it’s not. Obviously, the amount of emails that I get in my inbox, I can’t possibly run a team or a company just through email alone, and usually pain leads us to do something inside the agency. If it’s too much pain, we need to create a better way of doing it, and we were running initially, when it was one guy and a VA and maybe an account manager, we remember doing everything on email, it just became unwieldy, and I realized it wasn’t a way for us to grow. So obviously, we’re all virtual, so we can’t be in an office together and sort of collaborate on stuff, so we needed a repository for all these ideas, for all these processes, for all these checklists, and for communication internally among ourselves, and get everything off email as much as we possibly can.
So we looked around for a lot of different project management solutions, and probably tested, I would say seven or eight of them and we settled on one that I really felt was the best, and we are still using it to this day. It was recommended to me by my friend, Mike Rhodes, who also runs an AdWords agency and is awesome at what he does, which is, we use Podio. Podio is our project management software of choice, you can certainly use whatever you want though, however it works. I’ve seen other systems work really well as well, but what we love about Podio is that it’s super flexible, it’s customizable completely, it’s totally task driven, and it’s also just easy to use. And I think if it’s easy to use and you’ve got virtual people all around the world, you want them to use this thing, because if they don’t use it, then you’re really screwed.
Molly Pittman: Right.
Ralph Burns: Like, you’re just not going to get stuff done.
Molly Pittman: It has to be used systematically.
Ralph Burns: Yes, it has to be actually used. So, when we introduced this, I sort of said, “Hey, you know, we’re going to do this,” and this is when we were much smaller at that point. I’m like, “I need your feedback, does this thing suck or is it good?” I wasn’t beholden to it, you know, I always say there’s only one thing I’m married to in my life, which is my wife. Any idea and business, I am not married to. So if you show me a better way, then let’s figure it out. So the team really, they adopted it and they embraced it and made it better. So if you make a team, you know, a part of a decision like that, like we’re evaluating a third-party software platform right now, I’m getting everybody’s feedback. Like, if you guys don’t like it, we’re not going with it.
Like, it’s the same sort of thing with Podio. So they liked it, we adopted it, we changed it, it’s super flexible, now you can integrate it with Zapier and a bunch of other different applications, it’s way cool. And you don’t need to be like a tech per- I am like the least tech person there is to be able to operate it, but I created the whole, you know, project management software on my own inside Podio, and you can do the same. I just customized it for how we need to use it. So that’s one of the things we like about it. The other thing is that I can literally run the agency from my phone. The app for Podio is really, really good, as well as the iPad app and the application on your web browser. So that’s one of the things I really liked about it, which is because we’re all mobile and we want to be able to be informed of what’s going on, but not necessarily attached to our jobs. So the Podio app on iPhone and Android as well as iPad are just really awesome.
So how we use it is we use it, sort of in three different ways. And when we use it for like, daily updates, there’s a setting that actually gives daily updates as well as anybody who @s you, like if they need your help, I say, “Hey, if you need my help specifically, @, you know, Ralph Burns inside Podio and I’ll prioritize that. So I prioritize my tasks based on either @s or my unread notifications. Super simple. There’s a chat feature so you can actually chat with people both mobile as well as in the web app, which makes communication, especially with an international group like we’ve got, real easy. So we separate how I run the agency basically into two separate projects. So there’s a sales project which is myself, my business development manager and a couple of select people, and then the management project, and inside management is where we sort of have an ongoing conversation about what’s going on with a customer. So how we’ve been able to produce this and put this together is that we sort of do it from left to right.
Like when a customer is just about to become a customer, maybe we do that at Account Audit and Action Plan. That’s our first app inside that management project. And then the next step would be onboarding. The next step after that would be create their Ad Copy and create their Creatives, like we have an Ad Copy and a Creatives app and then we have the Campaign app where we put together the whole Michigan method and pull it all together. And then there’s a reporting app and there’s also Training which we use for our international training, so we work with everything sort of in a left to right way. And in each individual app, there’s tasks which you can assign to people, and you can communicate with people pretty effortlessly with a, sort of a activity area and comments so you can stay up to date on what’s going on. So we try and put everything into Podio, and communicate with the team through that activity part of Podio, which is super helpful.
The end result is that, you know, we use all these three steps together to just create as best a result as we possibly can for our agency customers, and so we don’t really think of ourselves as a Facebook Ads agency. Our company is, we grow businesses faster than they could’ve done it on their own because Facebook Ads is just the platform for it, because as you guys know, listening to this show and if you listen to any of these episodes here, you know it’s a very advanced advertising platform, and if it’s used the right way, you can really grow businesses and really help a lot of people and that’s really what we aim to do, and these three steps have enabled us to get some really good results for our customers.
Molly Pittman: Really good information, and again, great information not just for an agency, not just for a marketing agency, but anyone that has a business or works for a business and manages team members. So thank you so much, Ralph.
Ralph Burns: You bet.
Molly Pittman: It’s cool to see how we all ended up here, right? Not just the podcast, but in the digital marketing world. So I hope you guys found this valuable. If you’re part of any of our memberships, Keith and Ralph’s Facebook Ads University or DigitalMarketer Engage, we love to hear your stories, we love to hear how you got to where you are right now.
Keith Krance: Hey, this is Keith again and I hope you enjoyed this episode. I think even if you don’t have an agency or a consulting business, that there is a ton of gold in this episode, for really scaling any type of business. So, I’m going to give you my three keys here. Number one, my number one growth hack is figuring out a way to build authority or piggy back off someone else’s authority. By far, the number one fastest way to grow a consultancy or an agency and what that will do is it will give you a constant influx of clients that are asking you to take their money. When I first started, for some reason, I probably learned this from reading one of Ryan Deiss’ articles or watching one of his videos, I knew that I needed to build my authority because I was new into this space. So I went out and wrote and published my own book. I self-published it through Amazon’s KDP program, did a Kindle and a printed book, only printed out like, I don’t know, 50 copies or something like that. And I did it for authority.
I wasn’t trying to make any money, I wasn’t trying to use a book funnel, but that book led to one important client because he saw me as an authority. That client was in a mastermind with Perry and Marshall, next thing you know, he’s telling Perry about the results he’s getting from me, and I hear from Perry, his marketing manager, Jack Borne. Then I start running Facebook ads for free, for Perry. Next thing you know, they’re getting customers cheaper than they ever had before. And fast forward another year and a half, two years, and we’ve done three courses together, and Perry asked me to co-author his book, which is published by Entrepreneur Press, and in Barnes and Nobles now, and the rest is history. But we’ve done this over and over again, and we’re continuing to do this with people on our team, with our consultants who get certified through our program. So when I first met Ralph at one of my workshops in late 2013, he came to me and offered a solution.
And I have authority, but guess what, I can’t execute. I’m trying to build my own programs, products, and build a team and manage clients and it’s hard to say no to everybody that wants to hire us, and Ralph comes along and offers an amazing solution. Takes on one client, next thing you know, that leads to two, next thing you know, that leads to him running the agency side of the business, and we had amazing synergy. We still had a problem. Everybody wanted to talk to Keith because he was out front, he was the face. If you read the book, Pre-Suasion, which we’ve talked about quite a bit lately, you’ll see some of this two-thirds into the book or so, and the celebrity effect is kind of crazy, what happens, but I’ve seen it happen as we have continued to position different people as authorities.
And once we started having Ralph do consulting calls, when people were buying consulting calls, then having Ralph on our webinars, then having Ralph on the podcasts. Next thing you know, he’s crushing it in the agency, but if he’s crushing it in the agency and nobody knows about it, you don’t have the demand without the authority. This is why we took so long to build our certification the way we did it, because I know the number one driver is authority. Now that leads to number two. You have to get results. Another Steve Jobs quote, “We don’t get a chance to do that many things, and everyone should be really excellent, because this is our life. Life is brief, and then you die, you know. And we’ve all chosen to do this with our lives, so it better be damn good. It better be worth it.” And that’s one of Ralph’s amazing strengths, is that he does not quit. He is not ever satisfied if the results are not up to his standards, which are high. And clients know that if something goes wrong, then he will do whatever it takes to get those amazing results.
Number three is know your strengths. This goes back to the quote that I said at the beginning of this episode, the Beatles. “I am a visionary leader and I know that. I have been the background pushing to innovate. We don’t want Kodak, right, we don’t want some guy on the other side of the country working for some small agency doing amazing things, next thing you know they’re completely out of touch. But I know that’s my strengths and I know that I’m not going to try to get in there and manage every person on a day-to-day basis. Does that mean we have to have 20 different people that all have perfectly different puzzle piece traits? No. We’ve got a guy that came out of our certification that’s completely crushing it and has been for the last year, really, with one main employee. He’s just got amazing systems, and they complement each other. Their strengths are fairly opposite, and they have amazing systems. So Ralph and I were doing this with just both of us. Then we get a couple other people pretty quickly but still, you do not have to build a massive team.
You just have to know your strengths. So get results, know your strengths, and do whatever it takes to hack that authority. Piggyback off somebody else. I promise you, it will be worth it. And I’m going to sign off with this quote from Steve Jobs: “Your time is limited, don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma which is living the result of other people’s think. Don’t let the noise of other opinions drown your inner voice, and most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary. This is what we’ve done from day one. We’ve always taken the systems, they are proven, and we’ve slightly innovated fit with our unique perspective and our individual clients’ unique position. So be your authentic self, and I promise you the results will take care of themselves. I can’t wait to talk to you next week. Good bye.

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The post Episode 92: The 3-Step Strategy to Grow and Scale a Multi-Million Dollar Marketing Agency appeared first on DigitalMarketer.

Facebook for Local Business: Creative Ways to Grow

Is your local business on Facebook? Wondering how to market your business more effectively? To explore how to use Facebook in creative ways, I interview Anissa Holmes. More About This Show The Social Media Marketing podcast is an on-demand talk radio show from Social Media Examiner. It’s designed to help busy marketers and business owners […]

This post Facebook for Local Business: Creative Ways to Grow first appeared on .
– Your Guide to the Social Media Jungle

Episode 93: 6 Website Tweaks You Can Use to Skyrocket Your Sales

Special guest Syed Balkhi, Co-Founder of OptinMonster, joins the experts to discuss how to generate more website sales. Listen to learn six growth hacks you can deploy at the bottom of your sales funnel to increase your conversions and, thus, your profit, so you can outspend your competitors and dominate your market.


  • The biggest mistake you can make when trying to generate customers online (« and how you can avoid this).
  • The strategy you can use to reduce cart abandonment, overcome a customer’s objections, and generate subscribers and customers («Hint: You do this by removing one option and replacing it with another).
  • How to use the “Magic Recovery Email” campaign to recover 55% of lost revenue.


Churn Buster
Episode 93 Transcript (swipe the PDF version here):

Keith Krance: Hello and welcome back to Perpetual Traffic. Episode number 93. Super excited about today’s episode. We got a guy coming on today’s show to talk about some very, very important topics when it comes to scaling your traffic campaigns; growing your business in general.
Today’s going to be Ralph, myself, and special guest, Syed Balkhi. Ralph, this is a guy we’ve been going to War Room with for about a year and a half now, two years, something like that. At War Room, which is digital marketers, high-end masterminds; it’s an amazing group and we meet on a quarterly basis, four times a year; and one of the traditions of War Room is they have a thing called Wicked Smart and it’s a part of the Traffic and Conversion Summit as well. It’s a contest, everybody can submit an entry for the coolest thing that they’re doing. Whether it’s a resource, a strategy, a tip, a hack, whatever it is. It seems like every single War Room, since we’ve been a member, Syed either wins or almost wins.
Ralph Burns: Yeah.
Keith Krance: I mean that’s how he kind of came into our world but none other than that and I’ll let Ralph jump in here too but let’s here, Syed I want you to tell your story. Back in 2009, he created WPBeginner, the largest free WordPress resource site. He’s also the owner and launched the product OptinMonster, which a lot of you probably have heard of or used or have used and several other companies, software, solutions, he’s been involved in or owned or created and recently bought at Yoast Analytics which is now MonsterInsights.
Ralph Burns: Syed is that guy that obviously, he wins the Wicked Smart, or the “Wicked smaht.” It’s funny trying to hear you bust out a Boston accent, by the way, Keith, that was good.
Keith Krance: First time I tried.
Ralph Burns: Wicked smaht. Whenever anybody asks me who the smartest person in the room is at War Room and War Room’s a bunch of smart dudes, I always say it’s Syed. There’s no question in my mind. Now only does he manage so many different things from a business perspective but just the way your mind thinks. I like how you process information and then can take all these great ideas and implement them. Today’s show is going to be about a presentation that I saw, that I unfortunately had to leave early for and I was so ticked because the content was so good. Everybody who’s online right now, anyone who runs a business online or as an ecommerce store, it doesn’t matter what you’re selling; this is going to be an episode for you to really help optimize and pick up some killer growth acts to sky rocket your sales for your online business.
Totally pumped to have Syed here with us. Smartest guy in the room is finally on one of the smarter podcasts. Welcome buddy.
Syed Balkhi: Thank you guys, this is the best intro. Now I’ve got to live up to it.
Ralph Burns: Pressure’s on.
Keith Krance: No, no.  It’s all good.  He did a presentation that’s going to kind of be the premise of this show today and it’s really all about these amazing growth hacks you can use to sky rocket your sales so he’s going to get into that.
First, before we do, give us a little background like what got you into this whole world to begin with? Online business, helping people building software.
Syed Balkhi: I started when I was 12 years old with domaining. Fast forward several years, I went into SEO and social growth- just getting a lot of organic traffic. I launched a site called WPBeginner in 2009 and now it is the largest WordPress resource site. Through this website I’ve been able to launch several different plug ins and software services.
One of them is called OptinMonster which you see on digital marketer websites, traffic conversion, it’s running all over the web, we power 300,000 websites and that’s the exit intent pop up solutions with really smart conversion tools. Recently, as you mentioned we acquired the Yoast Analytics which is a Google Analytics integration for WordPress which is running on over 1.7 million websites. I live and breathe this stuff. I’m passionate about it and this is what I do day to day.
Keith Krance: I love it. So you’re seeing a ton of data. So I guess my first question for you is what’s one of the biggest mistakes you see people out there making that are trying to generate customers online?
Syed Balkhi: One of the benefits of having this service like OptinMonster and seeing people using Monster insights, our software is running and processing billions of page views a month. The biggest mistake that I see is a word flow mistake in your entire funnel. It’s focusing too much on the top of the funnel and not focusing enough on the bottom of the funnel.
What do I mean by that? Right? Everybody is throwing all their dollars on their awareness campaign and their interest campaigns. Tons and tons of pay per click, getting the awareness and then retargeting that person and bring them back and doing all of that. Which is great, you’re going to increase the volume of sales that you’re going to get.
When I talk with smart business owners, they’re often focusing on the bottom of the funnel because that’s where margins are happening. I always say that, “If you get more traffic, you’ll probably increase your revenue,” but if you improve your conversions, you’re definitely going to increase your profit and then the magic starts happening. You can outspend your competitors and you start dominating your market. The biggest mistake that I see people making is focusing too much on the top of the funnel stuff and not enough on the bottom of the funnel.
Ralph Burns: I think it’s harder to do. A lot people don’t really know what to do. I think there’s an overabundance of training, this podcast being one of them, on how to focus on the top of the funnel. How to get traffic, how to create a traffic machine which is what we talk about here but it’s a perpetual traffic system, is what we really talk about and so much of it is how you actually convert after the click. After you pay for the advertising as well as, probably the deepest stuff that I’ve seen, especially effect margins and ROI for agency customers is all the deep level targeting that we do way, way deep in the funnel.
I think Ezra talked about this when he was on, as well, Ezra Firestone and is super good at that. Like you said, it’s the smart guys focus on the bottom of the funnel and not just the top. You’ve obviously been able to figure it out with a lot of the stuff that we’re going to be talking about here. Food for thought for anyone who’s just concerned with more traffic I get, the better. That’s not the case. You’ve got to convert it and you’ve got to convert the ones who have already taken an action on your site.
Syed Balkhi: If your traditional funnel looks like a very nice interest decision action, I almost always work backward into the funnel. Not just the check-out stage, I’m talking about post checkout and then working my way up and that’s where margins start to happen. If you have a recurring business, which I don’t know how many you do, if you don’t, you should build a recurring business because that’s awesome.
Involuntary churn is a very, very big issues where you have people’s credit card information and when time comes for renewals, the credit card declines. It could be for one of the many reasons, right? Maybe they have a temporary hold, maybe their card expired, maybe they got a new card, maybe they have insufficient funds, maybe there’s no reason at all and the bank just thinks you’re shady. One of the things that we notice is that delinquent customers make up to 20 to 40 percent of your involuntary turn. Just insane.
Meaning these are the people who spend money to get, they bought from you and when time comes to renew, these customers are dropping off because of a system failure. So, if you’re using something like a stripe and most advanced merchants now have a VISA, MasterCard updater which basically goes through and updates your customers’ expiration date to make sure that if the card is expired, it automatically gets the new data from Visa or MasterCard directly and just fixes that problem for you. If you’re using like authorized.net there’s a company called Cyber Source that has this as well.
What I’m talking about is one level further. Taking it one level further in a dunning process. Basically, you’re sending emails, very targeted emails and lowering the friction for the user to update. I just say it’s free money, you have to turn it on. The key is, when somebody’s card is expired, you’re obviously going to try them one time, two time, maybe three times. If you have multiple merchant accounts, maybe you’re going to do that through three different merchant accounts.
But after that, if it’s still not coming through, you just send them an email. Maybe subject line called, ‘Billing Issue’ and say, “Hey Syed, we’re having trouble processing your most recent payment, would you mind updating the card on the file and here’s a link to update your billing info.” The key is, that link. That link should not take them to a log in page.
Too many times people make that mistake. Hey, log into your account and then go find the billing area and then go find where your card is entered and update it. No. This link just goes straight to a page where they can just type their credit card and information to update card. No log in required. What we’re using, we’re using a service called, Churn Buster to do this, and it’s basically free money.
We were losing all these customers, enabled this service and we’re making money. We’re making more money than we were making before. It’s just like ROI positive from day one. There’s another tool called, Retain by ProfitWell, does the same thing.
Ralph Burns: If you have a recurring software business, this is the best thing he has.
Keith Krance: By the way, you can access the Show Notes at digitalmarketer.com/podcast. This is Episode 93, and we’ll have all the resources or anything I have mentioned in this show on the Show Notes. We’ll be taking notes as well so that Churn Buster and we’ll link to that in the Show Notes.
Syed Balkhi: I don’t know if you guys go and check your analytics but go on your google analytics and look at how many people are leaving your cart page. Just look at the percentage. Sometimes the first time user, almost 85, 90% sometimes will go to your cart and do not buy on their first visit. Which is completely mind blowing.  That’s why we spend, retargeting is like a billion dollar industry. What can you do to reduce that which will allow you to reduce your retargeting spent and over all boost your margins.
One of the things that we noticed was that from our checkout page, people were going back to our home page or people were going back to the features page because they were having second thoughts. That was happening because we have links to our other features, other pages from our checkout page, either in the footer or in the header and I see this happen way too often. With people’s cart system, they add links, etc. Remove everything that you don’t need. We find that when our checkout page, there’s no nothing, there’s nowhere, there’s no other link you can click on. All you can do is buy unless you hit the back button. That boosted our conversions by a lot.
Another thing, that we noticed was offering multiple payment types, helps. This doesn’t make sense to other people like, “We’ll we only take credit cards.” A com score study showed that 56% of online want to see variety of payment options at checkout. Because we’re in a software business and we have multiple products, I’ll say, “Well, let’s try this, let’s try this study out.” And see if we can challenge that data.
We removed PayPal from our list. We accept credit card and PayPal but we removed PayPal. Our thinking was that everybody who wants to buy it will just buy it using a credit card. The only time people using PayPal is when the option is there. Well, we were dead wrong. We lost 20% of our monthly sales because we dropped PayPal. So if you don’t have PayPal as an option right now, guess what? So many people are going to your page and not buying because maybe they don’t trust you. Maybe they don’t have the credit card, they don’t want to share the credit card. So many people use PayPal because they don’t want to share a credit card with other companies.
Keith Krance: Security. Exactly. 100% we’ve seen, oh yeah, similar drops like that too.
Syed Balkhi: When you add PayPal in your options, you will see a boost. The other thing we use and I’m a big advocate of it is called Exit Intent Popups. We actually crowned that word into the thing. Exit Intent is a registered trademark.
Keith Krance: I didn’t know that.
Syed Balkhi: We started doing this before the thing what’s called Exit Intent. We have Exit Intent Popup on our pricing page as well as our checkout page. The cool part about OptinMonster is the messaging that we have, we just say, “That’s abandonment!” Or 70% of your website users are doing just that. Get started with OptinMonster and convert abandoning visitors. The key is that we have two options. You can change the wording but the key is to have two options on the pop up.
The first option, which is the main call to action is get started with OptinMonster, they click on that, the pop up will close and they can go back to continuing the action that they were doing. We added a secondary option, which says, “I have a few questions first.” And when somebody would click on that, they will see a contact form inside the pop-up which you can add inside OptinMonster.
What we say was the 4.7% of people who say that message sent us an email. They were about to leave. 4.7% of people that were leaving, they say that message. They clicked on it and said, “I have a few questions, first.” And took their name and email and sent us a message.  Our sales team converted one out of three users. On a good day, one out of two. Which is so crazy if you think about it. If you’re getting thousands of people on your pricing and checkout pages, these people are ready to buy. Otherwise, why would they go there? You’re converting 4.7%, a third of them. So one percent of all the users. That’s a lot of money that you don’t have to spend on ads. You can go dump that in another campaign. That’s just so big.
Using Exit Intent Popups effectively on your checkout page, on your pricing pages, if you’re not using it you’re losing money. You’re leaving money on the table.
Keith Krance: I’d love to dig into that a tiny bit more here because, and I’m sure a lot of people that are listening are like, “Okay, you said have two options,” kind of skimmed over that pretty quickly. If you were to give somebody a piece of advice, let’s say two people. One person is selling physical products and they’ve got multiples skews, different types of products and the other person is selling a digital, maybe an information product, a $97 course. What would be the first thing, to keep it simple, to give them advice if they’re going to add Exit Intent Popups to their order form, as far as like a strategy of what to say.
Syed Balkhi: Usually when somebody is buying their product there’s a very, very clear value proposition there that has led them to get to the cart page, so you have to highlight that value proposition again. For us, at OptinMonster, our value proposition is that we convert abandoning visitors into subscribers and customers. When our popup shows, it has a very clear message that says, “That’s abandonment!” It shows that right there and some people are like, wait a minute, yeah that’s exactly what I wanted to stop my users from doing so they go on to read it. You have to highlight whatever your value proposition is right there and then and then use your two messages. You know your popups you have seen, probably the yes, no popups? I’m sure you guys are familiar with those.
Keith Krance: Yeah.
Syed Balkhi: So you basically change the wording on the yes and no to two different things on OptinMonster you can do that inside.  The first one was, “Get started,” with whatever thing you have. Or you can say, “Continue shopping,” or, “Stop losing money,” whatever you have. Let’s say if you have auctions product, you’re doing stock trading, you can say, “Don’t make this stupid rookie mistake. Get our software,” or get our course that we’re training. And then the secondary option is, “I have a few questions, first,” because a lot of time when people are leaving, they have questions. You want to let them ask that question.
Another way that you can mitigate this is through a live chat but a lot of times you don’t have live chat agents sitting there ready for you. If you don’t have that, you should definitely do this. So, second option, in my opinion you should have to go to your contact page or to a contact form inside that pop up, I have a few questions first.
Keith Krance: Okay gotcha. So where you’re highlighting the value proposition, that’s on the order form itself. Right? Not on the actual popup.
Syed Balkhi: Oh, it’s in the popup.
Keith Krance: It is in the popup? Okay. Gotcha.
Syed Balkhi: The user was ready to leave the page. So whatever value proposition you had on the checkout page, clearly was not enough.
Keith Krance: Was not enough. Yeah.
Syed Balkhi: Most people’s check out pages are very, very simple, by the way. Right? They don’t have very fancy value propositions. Most people think that by the time you get to the checkout page, value propositions no longer important, you’re usually said, you’re 60 seconds away from doing whatever the hell you’re trying to do and enter your information. The users have to be reminded. Think of this as a retargeting campaign. If that user had left and you were on Facebook, what were you going to do? You’re going to show them the value proposition. Right? That’s what you want to do on this page. Inside your popup.
Keith Krance: So, just to be clear. On the exit popup, you don’t recommend putting the “no” on there at all, it’s really either “Yes, continue” or “I have more questions.
Syed Balkhi: Exactly, I replace the “no” with a “I have a few questions.”
Keith Krance: Yeah.
Ralph Burns: Yeah. That’s so badass.
Syed Balkhi: The cool thing inside OptinMonster is that you can choose what happens when the user clicks each of these buttons so it doesn’t have to be us … It’s two separate buttons so you can say, when somebody says “Get started” without the Monster, close this thing. When somebody says, “I have a few questions,” take them to the actual opt in which you’ve replaced with a contact so the user simply just enters their information there.
Ralph Burns: Right. That is great because I think a lot of people have seen the, yes, no and then no, I don’t like cute kittens or something like that. It’s something ridiculous. No I don’t want free money or something ludicrous but this is a shift in strategy that you’ve seen be more effective if sounds like.
Syed Balkhi: Exactly. Because what your goal is to do is to overcome the objection. If they’re leaving, they have an objection. Some kind of objection, is there a better thing or does this product really do what I want it to do? Will my wife approve of me buying this? Whatever objection there is, you want to clear that objection. That’s why “I have a few questions first” when you click on it the contact form shows up, right inside that popup. The user enters a name, email and their question and your pre-sale support team can respond to that question and take care of it.
Keith Krance: One of the easiest takeaways is that you don’t even really have to go out and do something. You just take out all the links on your checkout page too. That shouldn’t be lost in the conversation here as a great point. I see it all the time with our customers. You click whatever it is, it’s a logo and then it goes back to the home page, exactly like you’re saying. Take the damn links out. That’s awesome, dude.
Syed Balkhi: The other thing that we have seen work really well on our checkout page is what I call Magic Recovery emails. The reason why I call them Magic Recovery emails is because they’re truly magical. The way they work is we capture the users information as they’re typing it.
Keith Krance: Really?
Syed Balkhi: Yes. How they used to do it was they used to have a two-step order form. They would say, enter your name and email and then click to continue. When you continue, they would save that email and if somebody was to leave they got that person’s email. We said, that’s kind of silly, we don’t want to have two steps, we’re going to do that all in one step. We put the email field as a top field on our checkout page so obviously the user’s going to type that.
If they leave the form without competing the whole thing, we’ve got their email address. So, we’re going to put them in a three-part email series because these are transactional emails, again very important, don’t get in trouble with the Camstamp. These are transactional emails, you can send three of these.
We send the first one thirty minutes later. Then the second one, 24 hours later and then the third one, 48 hours later. After that, this used does not exist in our CRM. We delete him. The first email usually goes out with the subject line saying, “Is everything okay?” It would have, “Hey John, I just noticed that you tried to purchase OptinMonster but unfortunately it looks like you were having some trouble.” Again, we are taking the blame. I don’t know what happened but I’m going to take the blame anyways.  My second question, “Did something happen with our order page?  If so, please let me know so we can fix it. If you closed out of the page already, don’t worry I found your order and created a link for you, your detail’s already in the form,” and they can click on and buy.
Sometimes people can some back and say, “Yes, I was having issues with my PayPal or my credit card company,” and I can say, “Okay, yeah can you retry again?” And one of our agents will be right there to make sure that transaction goes through. If an issue happened or sometimes they’re like, “My wife called me, I had to go have dinner, I’m going to buy it now.” Right?
Then, if we don’t get a response after the 30 minute email, the next email that goes out 24 hours later says, “John, your OptinMonster account is on hold.” Then, the third one goes out that, “I’m deleting your OptinMonster account.” And you can imagine the response we get when we say, “I’m deleting your OptinMonster account.” No, no, don’t delete it, I really wanted to buy it.
Ralph Burns: Fear of loss.
Syed Balkhi: Exactly, the fear thing really comes in. You’d be surprised how much money you can save by just putting this Magic Recovery email. By the way, when we first put this on which I believe was the beginning of 2014, we added this technology inside our checkout system, we’ve recovered over 55% of lost revenue. With this campaign.
Keith Krance: I love that last one, deleting your account. Like guys that are on the fence, especially a lot of entrepreneurs out there that are a little bit like me maybe and you’re always like trying to, what’s the perfect solution and you know, can sometimes be a little indecisive.
Syed Balkhi: No. When we were looking for a solution of something like this, nothing existed except for one company. A company called Rejoiner. And they wanted to charge like three grand a month for this kind of thing. I have a team of software developers so we just built it in. But then people were like, “Well Syed what if I don’t have a team of software developers?” Well, over the last few years, since I’ve talked about this thing enough times, there are other companies that have come out and started doing it.
So two that are doing it. One is called CartHook and then the other one that is doing it is called Jilt that are very cheap like 50 bucks or 100 bucks a month kind of thing. Trust me, if you’re getting any sort of volume on your check out page, you’re having abandonment and this thing is going to make you money.
This combined with the Exit Intent, dude, you will add so much margins in your overall sales that it’s unbelievable.
Keith Krance: That’s unbelievable and I mean the reason why the two step opt in, why everyone uses it is because, oh, well I’m going to capture that email and so everyone started to use it because it makes sense but it’s really a disruption from what you’re saying. Put it all on one but you’re still captioning it anyway. First thing they’re entering in is that upper left hand corner, first name, last name, probably the next thing is email.
Syed Balkhi: We make email the first thing.
Keith Krance: Oh okay.
Syed Balkhi: We say enter the email the first thing and what our system is doing is the moment they switch to the next field, that email gets saved into our CRM. That’s where beauty is happening, you guys. It’s called partial form submission.
Keith Krance: Partial form submission. This is gold right here, so now, my question is, is how does this integrate with all the different solutions out there? So, if somebody’s using Stripe, if somebody’s using ClickFunnels, if somebody’s using Infusion Soft Direct Order Forms, Ontraport, all the traditional, maybe they’re just using a PayPal. How does that work?
Syed Balkhi: That’s why I mentioned the two services that I recommended.
Keith Krance: Okay.
Syed Balkhi: Because those guys integrate with other systems. We built this ourselves because at that point, nothing existed except for Rejoiner that was charging three grand a month for it. I was like, “Whoa, guys this isn’t rocket science.” Right? If you have a developer team and you tell your developer that you want partial form submissions, they can build it for you. But if you don’t have a developer or you don’t want them to spend their time on this. You want to go to CartHook that integrates. They integrate with Shoptify, they integrate with WooCommerce, they integrate with Magento, Volusion, 3dCart. They have an API that if you’re a developer or skim can integrate to whatever system that you’re using.
Keith Krance: Gotcha. Okay, so you don’t have that solution yourself for sale.
Syed Balkhi: Oh no. This is something that we built very quickly and then we rolled it in across all of our ecommerce products that we have.
Keith Krance: Yeah.
Syed Balkhi: Exactly. If you do the post checkout stuff and you do the checkout stuff, you’re putting money in your pocket without spending any more money. They traffic that’s coming to your site is converting at a much better rate and you’re making more money. What you have done effectively is you have decreased your cost per lead. You do increase your cost per acquisition so you can go out and do more stuff with that money. Whether it is to give yourself a bonus or spend more money on your pay per click ads campaign.
Ralph Burns: What I love about it too is that when we talk about retargeting, we always call it “The Molly,” which is how we will typically word our ad copy for a retargeting ad for a cart to band in or whatever it happens to be. The responsibility is on us. We’re almost apologizing. Did we do something wrong? So, you’re taking the same exact tactic which keys into human psychology which is absolutely brilliant. 30 minutes later and you’re compliant with CAN-SPAM which I never would have though it is, but it is. Obviously you’ve looked into it. It’s genius. It’s the same kind of psychology in retargeting, you’re just doing it in an email. What are the open rates, typically, on that first email that you send out to people? Have you measured that as far as success goes?
Syed Balkhi: It’s over 65%. People are opening, especially that last one, with the “I am deleting your OptinMonster account,” that email has over 60% open rate. This is gold, that subject like. I stole that from Ryan, by the way.
Keith Krance: I love it.
Syed Balkhi: Got to give credit where it’s due. That’s the thing. The reason why it is compliant is because that is a transactional email, you guys. You cannot use those abandoned users and say, “Well, now let me send them a broadcast.” No, no, no. You’ve got to remove them. These emails essentially are going out as a person. It’s not going out as, oh, it’s coming from OptinMonster with an unsubscribe link or anything like this. This looks like a personal email that’s going out.
Keith Krance: Oh, okay, so be very careful with this. You made that comment about deleting that user after the third one.
Syed Balkhi: Exactly because otherwise, they didn’t consent to be in your system. What you’re doing is basically reminding them, “Hey, you forgot something in your cart.” You might have seen these in a lot of ecommerce system, this kind of built in. “Hey, you forgot something in your cart.” And you’re like, “Well, how the hell did you know?” That’s how they remind you.
Keith Krance: This is money stuff here, Syed. Do you have any other tips? I have a feeling you might have a few more bag of tricks up your sleeve.
Syed Balkhi: Absolutely. When it comes to are you seeing scarcity, you’ve guys have probably heard of 24 flash sales. Right? Where you have a dollar trial or something like this and those things work really, really well but you can take this further.
One of my friends Joe Simon, he was also a former War Room member, what he did, he created his own holiday. He created something called, “National Anglers Day,” because his audience is all in the fishing world. He just said, “National Anglers Day, get 40% off select gear while supplies last.” What he was trying to do was get rid of his inventory, clear out these things that weren’t selling. They just discounted them 40% and created a National Anglers Day sale. His competitors were going crazy because they were like, “Well, what is this day? How did we miss this?” Turns out he created that thing, all of it.
Keith Krance: Yeah. That’s so funny.
Syed Balkhi: Think about this, people are like, “Oh, wait, you can do that?” Well yeah, Amazon did the same thing. Amazon Prime Day. It’s a made up holiday. Right? It’s one of the biggest shopping days in the world, Amazon estimated like 525 million dollars is sales or something like that. Crazy stuff.
One of the other things that I wanted to share with you guy is the concept of onsite retargeting combined with the concept of onsite follow up campaigns. Everybody thinks of onsite retargeting as exit intent. Right? That’s cool. That’s great. But what about returning visitors, when they come back. You’ve got to show them something different, can’t show them the same dang offer you showed them when they were leaving inside the popups or inside your floating bars. You can use that and see, does the customer have purchased our plan already.  So, if somebody has purchased basic plan of OptinMonster, we show them a completely different offer that prompts them to upgrade to OptinMonster Pro.
Keith Krance: Okay.
Syed Balkhi: And you can do that with onsite retargeting. The other one is what we call onsite follow up campaigns, it’s practically like auto responders on your website. What happens when somebody opts in to your popup right now? Typically, most people just say, well if they opt in, don’t show them the popup for like 365 days or if they’re saying no, I don’t want this thing then don’t show them this thing for 30 days and then show it to them again. Well, that’s kind of silly. I was like well, how can we improve that? We created something called Onsite Follow Up Campaign. Nobody’s talking about this because this is something new that I built for our stuff.
When somebody has opted in for a specific Lead Magnet on our site, we just show them a scroll box with an offer, right there and then. So, when they’re scrolling down, it just says, “Hey, stop losing customers. Recover abandoning visitors with Onsite Retargeting,” and the button says, “Increase my conversions” and when you click on that you go to the Buy OptinMonster. Essentially if you opt in to the ultimate opt in form checklist, clearly you want to build the best opt in form and you’re going to need the tool. We’re doing auto responders on the website using these dynamic web forms which is crazy. People are not even doing any of this. This thing is working really cool so if you’re not trying it, this is one of those early adopter tips.
Keith Krance: So if they come back like two weeks later, let’s say, so what do you do in that situation, how does that work? Depending on where they are, about how they’re tagged?
Syed Balkhi: Exactly, so OptinMonster has two ways. One is just new versus returning, we can detect when a person is coming back. The other way, if you want to be really specific. Let’s say, if a person purchased this thing, then show them this thing. You can get really specific like that. The most important thing that I want to highlight is the follow up campaigns, that if they have already seen your popup or closed your existing popup or have opted in to a specific Lead Magnet that you’re offering, then you should show them a follow up thing and you can do that inside a popup, you can do that inside a full screen welcome gate, welcome mat kind of thing. You can show that inside a scroll box, like the slide in thing or a floating bar, what have you. You can use any of the dynamic elements to show them your offer right there and then on the website. If they have opted in, don’t wait to send them an email. Show them the offer right there and then. Especially if they go on the second page on your website, that dudes going to convert.
Keith Krance: Yeah, he’s interested.
Syed Balkhi: He’s interested. Show it to them right there and then. You can use them for down sells too by the way. Let’s say you show then your core product offer and they said no, no thank you to the core product offer, then show them a down sell. You can target the user and personalize your forms based on their behavior on your website.
Keith Krance: Wow.
Syed Balkhi: This is the next level stuff that you will see happening over the course of this 2017 and 2018 as more people catch up to it because again, this is one of those things that we built On Site Follow Up Campaign and as more and more OptinMonster users use it, more people talk about it and you’ll probably see somebody else now start talking about it at conferences. Onsite Follow Up Campaign, this thing works really well. Well, you heard it here first.
Ralph Burns: That’s right. You absolutely did. That is so cool.
Keith Krance: That’s what I’m talking about.
Ralph Burns: That’s just amazingly cool. My question is on any sort of Exit Intent Pop. At what point and you probably know this through data, I’m guessing. Is at what point do you become an annoyance? How much is too much because I think people are going to listen to this episode and, “All right, I’m going do this, I’m going to put it on every single page and I’m going to use all the bells and whistles,” but at some point they might actually tick off the customer and they go in the reverse direction. What are your thoughts on that?
Syed Balkhi: You want to be very careful with the message. Show them the most targeted offer. That’s our goal.  To help the users show the most targeted offer. The offer that you’re showing on your checkout page is completely different than the offer that you’re going to show on your blog post. I recommend only turning on Exit Intent, targeted ones for your money pages.  So, go into your Google Analytics, look at the top five, top 10 pages on your website and create the offers for those pages, create specific Lead Magnets for those pages and then show it to them on exit.
When those users see there’s a targeted offer for those pages, they’re going to download it because obviously that page was resolving their problem. For example, let’s say we have a blog post on 50 blog post ideas to help you come up with your next blog post. Then the user is about to leave, you can say, “Bonus! Download 73 more blog post ideas for free.”  Will you ever turn that down? No, you’re not. You’re like, “I actually want this.” Or when they’re leaving you’re like, “Hey, download my free published blog post checklist,” so you can make the best blog post.
Obviously you’re going to download my checklist so it’s not annoying at that point but if you say, “You’ll get 30% off on every single exit attempt,” that’s going to annoy them.
Ralph Burns: Got it.  So, it’s got to be consistent-
Keith Krance: Which makes it relevant.
Ralph Burns: Yeah, whatever they’re consuming makes it consistent with it.
Syed Balkhi: Yeah, relevancy is key.
Keith Krance: All right, this is amazing stuff, this is awesome, thank you for sharing this gold. Once again, Show Notes at digitalmarketer.com/podcast, Episode 93. What I would do if I was listening right now is I would go to OptinMonster and just experience what he is talking about, how they are using these strategies within their own company. That’s the first thing I would do. Then, second say, “Where can people find out more about you and more about their solutions,” or where they can just burn more of this good stuff.
Syed Balkhi: The best place is OptinMonster.com, we talk a lot about conversion marketing, even marketing, et cetera.  So, we have a pretty decent sized blog there. If you have a WordPress site, you will want to check it out. You want to check out WPBeginner.com. We have a tutorial, or 2,000 tutorials, all free for you guys to use. Then and yeah, if you’re using WordPress, check out some of our plug ins, they should be under our products page. To find more about me you can find me at Syed Balkhi just about anywhere on the web.
Keith Krance: Right, so it’s just syedbalkhi.com. Once again, it will be in the Show Notes. Good stuff here, appreciate you coming on. We’ll be seeing you probably in another three months or so.
Syed Balkhi: Absolutely.
Keith Krance: Or another event.
Ralph Burns: Probably like figuring out 20 other incredibly cool centered things by then.
Syed Balkhi: Thank you so much for having me on this show.
Ralph Burns: Oh, this has been awesome.
Keith Krance: I’m going to have you back on like every four or five months, a little check involved.
Syed Balkhi: I think so.
Keith Krance: It would be pretty sweet.
Syed Balkhi: What’s Syed working on now? That’s-
Keith Krance: That’s how’s you instantly take your campaigns. Like take two things you took out of this show just now and just implement one or two of them and then you get to go right back to your AdWords analytics dashboard or its your Facebook Ad Campaign Metrics and you’re just going to see your cost per conversion down and your overall ROI go up. Pretty epic stuff. Thanks again for coming on, talk to you guys all soon. See you later.
Syed Balkhi: See you. Bye.

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes!

iTunes not your thing? Find us on Stitcher or at DigitalMarketer.com/podcast.

The post Episode 93: 6 Website Tweaks You Can Use to Skyrocket Your Sales appeared first on DigitalMarketer.

Episode 91: Everything You Need to Know About Facebook Website Conversion Campaigns

Listen as the experts clear up the confusion surrounding how to successfully create Facebook Website Conversion Campaigns. The crew will give you a high-level understanding of how to generate conversions on Facebook, detail how and why they do things, and share the results they’ve gotten, so you can better understand the Facebook algorithm and generate the results you want from your ads.


  • When to use the Website Conversion Campaign, how many days to run it for, how to bid, and how many conversions you need for measurable data.
  • The myth surrounding Website Conversion Campaigns, how it may be holding your campaign back, and the true number you should be paying attention to (« even on a small budget).
  • The huge revelation that gave Dominate Web Media more data, made their campaign more powerful, and reduced their cost per acquisition (« and how you can do the same).
  • Which Website Conversion Campaign feature has given DigitalMarketer the lowest cost per leads while generating the highest volume of leads and how you can apply this feature to your funnels.


Episode 45: 5 Proven Facebook Offers that Convert
Episode 47: Facebook’s New Conversion Pixel: What You Need to Know
Episode 71: The Michigan Method: A Strategy for Scaling Ad Campaigns
Episode 86: UPSYD: The 5-Step Framework to Generate More Customers
Facebook Business Guide: Everything you need to know about getting conversions


Thanks so much for joining us this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave us a review on iTunes!

The post Episode 91: Everything You Need to Know About Facebook Website Conversion Campaigns appeared first on DigitalMarketer.

How To Build A Marketing Dream Team For Your Brand (Even If You Aren’t A Marketer)

How would you describe your marketing team?

  • Understaffed?
  • Overworked?
  • Undertrained?
  • Non-existent?

The fact is that digital marketing is no longer an optional extra for small businesses, but even the best business owners don’t have time to figure all this stuff out.

That’s why every business on Planet Earth needs professional marketers on their team.

This digital marketing “stuff” has become too complicated for one person to handle — particularly if they are also trying to run a business.

Make no mistake, DigitalMarketer is not only the name of our business — it’s a career. According to Yahoo! Finance, digital marketers have an earning potential of $209,755 with 12% of these pros earning more than 150,000 annually.


Even the entry-level salary is more than 73K. Not pocket change.

But don’t worry, when you finish this article you’ll know what roles you need to hire to build your own internal marketing team and (as a BONUS) they won’t cost you nearly as much.

Step 1 – Understand the Structure of the Modern Marketing Team

 These are the three roles that must be present in every modern marketing team (even if you’re a team of one):

  • Content Team – Responsible for building content (blog posts, podcasts, videos, etc.).
  • Acquisition Team – Responsible for generating new leads and front-end sales.
  • Monetization Team – Responsible for transforming leads and front-end sales into customers.

If your marketing team is non-existent, the first milestone is to hire a single individual responsible for each of these three core responsibilities.

As your company grows, so too will your org chart. At DigitalMarketer, we have 12 employees (and growing) on the marketing team:


Alright, let’s look at a breakdown of the titles in this org chart:

  • Editorial Director – responsible for directing the content and social media strategy from the top of the funnel (Awareness) to the bottom of the funnel (Conversion). (Learn more about Content Marketing here)
    • Blog Editor – (may also be called the Managing Editor) responsible for the ideation, scheduling, and coordination of content on the blog.
    • Video Editor – responsible for managing the video presence including all top-of-funnel video content.
    • Social Media Manager – responsible for managing the brand’s social presence on appropriate social channels such as Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
    • Community Manager – responsible for the management of private communities. (May not be applicable to your business.)
  • Director of Acquisition – responsible for directing lead generation and initial customer acquisition strategy and campaigns. (Learn more about Acquisition, Activation and Monetization here)
    • Traffic Manager – responsible for the execution of organic and paid traffic strategy and campaigns.
    • Analytics Manager – responsible for tracking key marketing analytics and key performance indicators (KPI’s) for intercompany departments, then compiling and communicating this data to appropriate members and departments.
    • Graphic Designer – responsible for the creation of advertising graphics for paid media, social media, and original images for the blog.
  • Director of Monetization – responsible for maximizing the revenue generated from all assets, including but not limited to customer lists and all web and media properties.
    • Email Marketing Manager – responsible for executing email marketing strategy and campaigns.
    • Optimization Manager – responsible for proactive and reactionary strategic testing to increase conversion rates.

In the beginning, you’ll have a single person in charge of editorial or acquisition or monetization. As your business evolves, you might find a need for more granular roles such as separate Traffic Managers for Facebook and Google traffic.

Step 2 – Write Job Descriptions and KPI’s For Each Role

Taking the time to write proper job descriptions and KPI’s makes everything easier.

Easier because the employee knows what is expected and the manager knows what to expect. It’s worth of bit of the time and energy it takes to create them.

A proper job description has 5 parts:

  • General information (Name, title, direct reports, etc.)
  • Job Purpose
  • Key Responsibilities & Accountabilities
  • Key Performance Indicators (KPI’s)
  • Personal Characteristics

Here’s the full job description and key performance indicators for our Data Analyst role:

Name: Mark Etingpro  
: Data Analyst
Reports to: Director of Acquisition
Direct Reports:
Based at:
DM HQ – Austin, TX

Job Purpose:

As a data analyst, you’re responsible for tracking both key marketing analytics as well as key performance indicators for intercompany departments, then compiling and communicating this data to appropriate members and departments.

You’re also responsible for identifying trends in data that may reflect an opportunity or possible weakness in the business. This includes, but is not limited to, metrics such as churn rate for continuity programs, performance of media campaigns, and success of promotions.

You will have a constant pulse on the business and focus not only on gathering and presenting data, but constantly checking the quality and efficacy of the data we’re collecting to help DigitalMarketer best reach it’s goals.

Key Responsibilities & Accountabilities:

  • Work with VP of Marketing and President to establish and evaluate the data that should be tracked to measure both long and short term company goals.
  • Interpret and analyze high level company data (continuity churn rate, paid media performance, promotional performance, etc.)
  • Provide ongoing reports and dashboards for each department of the company that reflects their KPIs/goals along with overall company goals.
  • Develop and implement data collection systems and other strategies that optimize statistical efficiency and data quality.
  • Identify, analyze, and interpret trends or patterns, and communicate those findings along with suggestions for improvements or changes to the appropriate department head.
  • Consistent attention to finding trends in data that will reveal new opportunities or glaring weaknesses within the company.

Key Performance Indicators

Monitoring improvement of the following key metrics above the steady baseline:

  • DigitalMarketer Lab churn rate
  • DigitalMarketer Lab trial conversion rate
  • Cost per acquisition from paid traffic campaigns by offer and traffic source
  • Return on investment from paid traffic campaigns by offer and traffic source
  • Total number of leads acquired from paid traffic campaigns by offer and traffic source
  • Conversion rates for each step of acquisition funnels
  • Conversion rate for each follow up campaign in relation to acquisition funnels
  • Average time to first response to support ticket
  • Customer satisfaction rating from solved support tickets
  • Unique blog page views
  • Total CTA clicks from blog posts
  • Total number of recommendations made to improve baseline KPIs

Personal Characteristics Required:

  • Organized
  • High attention to detail
  • Analytical
  • Persistent
  • Assertive
  • Data Driven
  • Curious

These job descriptions are reviewed and signed by each employee and used to drive the employee’s day-to-day work, and the evaluation of their performance on the part of the manager.

Step 3 – Promote High-Performers and Exit Poor Performers

Alright let’s look at a breakdown of the titles in this org chart:

Follow these three rules:

Rule 1 – 5-10% Over Market Salaries + Amazing Culture = Low Turnover

The last thing you want is to make a good hire and have that person immediately start looking for the next opportunity. One of the secrets to building a great marketing team is creating consistency. To do that, you need to decrease turnover.

Our rule of thumb is to pay more than the going rate for good people, and create an amazing culture. At DigitalMarketer, we like to have fun. We send each other funny gifs on our internal messaging system, we go out and have dinner and drinks and we don’t take ourselves too seriously.

Here’s an example of what I mean:

But creating an amazing culture for your business can mean any number of things. Is it a studious culture? A serious and professional culture? A laid back, anything goes culture? Whatever it is, consider that culture fit with each new hire.

As for determining the market rate for employees, that’s easy. We let sites like Glass Door, Salary and Payscale tell us.

For example, if we are going to hire a Content Marketing Manager in Austin, Texas we would use this information from Salary.com to determine the proper salary.


While this is a wide salary range, when broken into “quartiles” this information becomes very useful:

  • Quartile 1– $72,563 to $80,688
  • Quartile 2– $80,688 to $89,612
  • Quartile 3– $89,612 to $101,782
  • Quartile 4– $101,782 to $112,861

If this is a new hire with no experience in this role, we would hire with a salary offer at the low end of Quartile 1. This information is extremely useful as you give raises to your employees as well.

When your Content Marketing Manager approaches you with a raise to $100,000 per year, you can base that decision on questions like,

“Based on the contribution to the company and the level of training and experience of this Content Marketing Manager, do they deserve a raise that would place them at the high end of Quartile 3?”

Rule 2 – Promote Those That Pass Knowledge Down

Promote those who show an ability and willingness to document what they know and teach it to others.

The fact is processes are more valuable than products.


More often than not, if you create a culture of documentation, your promotions will be internal. As a process is created and the company grows, an employee will replace themselves and ascend the ladder to a higher position.

TIP: Create an internal wiki using a WordPress theme like Flatbase or (better yet) use DigitalMarketer’s training products like The Machine, Funnel Blueprint, DigitalMarketer Lab and DigitalMarketer HQ as your knowledge base.

Rule 3 – Three Strikes and You’re Out!

Hiring employees means occasionally making the tough decision to fire employees. Not every hire will work out.

We use a simple system to coach and work with employees that aren’t performing to expectations.

  • Strike 1 – Email Notification – Be clear about the expectation they are failing to meet. Ask them to reply and confirm receipt. The first strike is documented in this email.
  • Strike 2 – Face to Face Meeting – If the behavior continues, schedule a formal meeting to work in-person with the employee. Document the outcome in a follow-up email.
  • Strike 3 – Termination – If the behavior continues to persist, it’s better for both parties if the employee moves on.

Step 4 – Dedicate One Week+ to Onboarding

The entry-level salary for a trained digital marketing pro is north of 70K per year.

At DigitalMarketer, we hire for culture fit and something we call “give a damn.”

Then, we train them.

First, we train them on the core values and mission of the company. For new hires, this often takes place as the last phase of the hiring process.


Second, we train them on their job.

This is why we rolled out our mastery classes and certifications.

Our Content Team members are required to receive three certifications:


Acquisition Team members are required to receive two certifications:


Monetization Team members are required to receive two certifications:


And the leaders (Directors and VP’s) of all teams must receive one additional certification:


This is how you’ll build a rock star marketing team that actually functions like a team. This is how you get a coordinated team all moving toward the same goal…

… growing your company!

(NOTE: Master the 8 critical core disciplines of digital marketing with the ultimate training library. Learn more about DigitalMarketerHQ here.)

The post How To Build A Marketing Dream Team For Your Brand (Even If You Aren’t A Marketer) appeared first on DigitalMarketer.

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